Episode 52: The Deputy Commandant of the US Naval Academy
Summary
Ever hear of the Army Navy football game? The Navy side of that is from the US Naval Academy, and my alma mater. Join me in today's "other Salisbury adventure" episode where I interview Deputy Commandant from the US Naval Academy CAPT Dave Forman, my classmate and friend. He explains the many differences in technology, teachings, training, and leadership between 1998 and today, along with the duties of the "Vice Principal" of an incredible institution that commissions officers into the US military. Join me in a conversation inside the Naval Academy.
Listen to full episode :
Full Episode Transcription
Welcome to my life as a landlord where we untangle all things housing and educate the curious. If you're
looking for some entertainment with some honest, awkward conversations, you've come to the right
show. I'm your host, Dr. Jennifer Salisbury. This is my life as a landlord. Welcome to it.
So I have to chuckle because, um, you know, I'm wearing my navy. My navy shirt. You've got your
Navy garb on, and, uh, I know my Canadian listeners go. Yeah, okay. So what? So what's this Naval
Academy all about? The US folks will probably know, but maybe our Canadians, uh, may not. So let's
just go. Basics. What's the Naval Academy all about, Mr. Neptune?
Yeah, sure. Uh, the Naval Academy, uh, is one of the three main service academies, uh, Air Force
academies, out in Colorado Springs. Uh, West Point is, uh, in New York. Uh, to get into the Army and
then the Naval Academy here in Annapolis, Maryland, is one of three ways to become a naval officer. So
it's four years here. You get your graduate degree and commission on the same day when you graduate.
And you have also the reserve Officer Training Corps, where you go to a civilian university. You have
classes a couple times a week and also get a diploma and a commission at the end, or you just go get a
degree somewhere. I haven't had the Navy piece of it yet. And then you go through Officer Candidate
School for a few months and get a commission that way. Uh, so this is the most intense, uh, it's a rigorous
program. We take up a lot of your time, and you get. But you also get a lot more experience and exposure
because you're living it and breathing it every, every day that you are here and most of the summers as
well.
So as a classmate. 1998 was a long time ago.
Yeah, time flies, I know. And there's a, there's a few changes. But, you know, when we were
midshipmen, the deputy commandant was now General Bolden, who, you know, became an astronaut
and all kinds of fun things. And now you're the deputy commandant. It's sort of like we've grown up. Tell
me about being the depth on what's the difference between all the other jobs there.
Yeah, it's a little surreal coming back at 25 years later and you know, we are now them. How did that
ever happen? It seemed that they seemed untouchable at the time. And then we looked up to General
Bolden, uh, a colonel to us at the time, but still he was just like a god. And and I, I will say I still look up
to him. I saw him at the Army Navy game if we talk about that later. Uh, so I've seen him. And then we
also are other, um, Captain Farrell and Captain Snead. I've had lunch back in King Hall, our dining
facility, with each of them. So nice. Nice closing the loop with them. Uh, so the first couple of times
when I found out I got it, you're you're in disbelief. But that goes by relatively quickly because the job
takes you over and you do the day to day business and you don't have time to think about, wow, I'm I'm
the deep thought out. Uh, so it's also, I've been super lucky that I this is my second time back. I did about
halfway through my career. About a decade ago, I was here working for the superintendent. Uh, so I'll
explain that position in a second. But I was the flying secretary, so I saw all the paperwork and got to see
the place operate as a graduate at the institutional level, and now I'm just in one piece of it. Uh, so the
superintendent is the equivalent to the president of a university. Uh, he. And soon to be she we expect,
uh, Admiral Yvette Davis to be the first woman superintendent coming here sometime early next year
and 24. Uh, so that's exciting. Uh, but so thus far in Naval Academy history, he. But soon to be she
responsible for for everything that goes on in Naval Academy, uh, from admissions to conduct alumni
stuff, uh, internationally, all the academics and all that. And then you, you have a provost that's in charge
of academics. You have an athletic director in charge of all the sports and athletics, obviously. And the
cabinet is the best analogy I can come up with is like a dean of students. So we are responsible for the
military conduct bearing the training, professionalism, how they act and the dormitory, how they conduct
themselves out on liberty and all the rules and regulations associated with that. All the military training
falls into, into our wheelhouse. So I do work directly for the anonymous shipment. He's the one that's
responsible. Uh, we have had a women cosmonauts, uh, in the past, uh, the one that's coming to mind.
And. Uh, so I'm on the real basic level with the elevator speech is I'm kind of like the vice principal. Uh,
so that's where I do also handle conduct and everything else. And being the number two, I do the staff
work, and the Commodore has the authority to make all the final decisions. But I there's a whole
structure that we have, I think. I like to think I do a good job coordinating that. And I make the, the, the
Commodore's decisions relatively easy. Uh, we face some doozies. Uh, in the past couple of years that
I've been here, uh, but that's what I do, so I don't I don't actually own everything, but as a, as a team
player, I specifically maintain the mindset as if I owned everything. And it and some things I get to
direct, some things I get to recommend and some things I just I coordinate with. And it's a, it's a lifestyle
job. I'm always working even when I'm not. Because much like, uh, New York or the City that never
sleeps, the brigade never sleeps either. 4400 college students trying to figure out how to be become naval
officers in just four short years.
Sounds like an entrepreneur and landlords. Landlords don't sleep either. We get calls in the middle of the
night over all kinds of stuff. So, um, I think that's, uh, very appropriate.
Glad to hear that you're not the landlord for Bancroft Hall.
It is old. Yeah, yeah, I'm talking about bad tenants. Oh my goodness.
Well, I just remember in, uh, Bancroft Hall, I think it was our senior year. Our first year, they had just
renovated. Third, weighing first, weighing, I forget, and they were brand new. And now I look back and
now those rooms are 25 years old. I mean, and they had replaced the heating and boilers and all kinds of
things underneath to come support in the middle of winter. They had to rip everything up. I mean, it was
just surreal how big everything is there.
We are not ready to renovate again. It is time we starting in the next few years.
Unbelievable. Absolutely unbelievable. And it squeezes everything in. Right. Everybody you know, eight
wings. It squeezes everybody in. Well, and speaking of changes in the brigade, uh, when we were
midshipmen, um, the brigade went from 36 companies to 30 companies. And I started off in 11th
company was shifted to sixth company. And then we got shotguns to first company as part of that
downsizing. And I'm hearing that we're heading back to 36 companies. Is that right?
We absolutely are actually like literally today. Remember that we haven't shifted yet. But the
notifications went out today like 45 minutes ago. Uh, so on on who's going to be in the new companies
when we start school next year. So we went down because, uh, when the Cold War ended, you know,
that that was much delayed. But that's how things it takes that long to, to trickle down. The thought was
that enable the Navy and therefore the Naval Academy was going to get smaller. That never actually
happened. Uh, it costs a little bit of money to go back to 36. Uh, but yeah, I think, uh, I might swap them,
but comparing it again to the Air Force Academy in West Point, they're at 36 and 40 company size units.
And so both more than us at 30. So we've had a couple of surveys come out in the past year. We were not
broken. But we want to get better in a variety of areas. And we felt that one of the corrective actions is to
make each company has a company officer. So a lieutenant in the Navy or a captain in the Marine Corps,
and a senior enlisted leader at the 8687 rank in the Navy or Marine Corps, and so that it'd be easier for
them to have a smaller group to manage instead of having 140 or so. Uh, they'll have maybe 125, 120 ish,
uh, midshipmen and that, that, that leader to lead ratio getting better will help us do a better job. And
that's why we're doing it. So it's largely administrative. You know, the hall is staying the same size.
We're just introducing six more company officers, six more senior enlisted leaders. Still organized into
six groups of battalions. That's the same. And they'll just be a little bit easier for them to be more
involved. As with, I assume, being a landlord as well. Yeah. The ratio it needs to work. You have to be
able to see all of your people and, and, and they'll do a better job with a smaller sized company.
Absolutely love it. I, uh, I know my my first year, I was always talking with my senior enlisted,
and that was that was great. It was pivotal. And I happened to be right around the corner from the brigade
master chief at the time. And so I was talking with him all the time, too, who is now, um, part of the
support for the Lawrence family from from my sponsors. So, um, pretty, pretty interesting, um, hearing
about us, Master Chief Mitchell.
right, that's Mitch. That's right.
Oh, just go on. I was going to meet with him, uh, when I got back in the area here. And then Covid hit.
Um, I remember he called it off. I wasn't even concerned about Covid. He was like, maybe we ought to
not meet. I'm like, what do you mean we ought to not? What's the problem? And it was like, like
probably six hours later, I'm like, oh, this is bad. Yeah, yeah.
Oh my goodness. Well, interesting to hear about the changes in the brigade and, and the different
companies. It makes perfect sense of why. But that's not the only thing that's changed. Um, one thing I
mean, my sister and I are both Naval Academy grads. I know that the the ladies cover the hats. Um, they
were different when we were midshipmen, but now everybody's got the same hat the ladies wear the
same as the the men and then the ladies hairstyles now is, uh, ponytails and and other other such things.
But what what other changes? Not the only changes since 1998. I mean, I remember as a as a first year, I
had to go register for classes on a, on a computer because our Netscape was not, not new enough. Right,
because the internet was just coming. Uh, what other changes have you noticed that, uh, at the Naval
Academy?
Well, I'll briefly say, because another one of our classmates is here, Dave Durkin. Uh, that, uh, the the
Navy officer evaluation system is still nav fit 98. It has not changed. So they started to shift to one. It got
a little friction and so they extended how long that fit 98 is available to be used until the new program
works. And so when that that message came out, uh, Dave Durkin sent it to me like, this is like like, this
is awesome. Awesome. Yeah. Pretty pretty incredible that that, uh, since then, uh, same program and
mids is still mids. Um, we don't use the Naval Academy data network anymore that we, we are at, uh,
we're at an edu domain now. I think that's good. Okay. That's right, that's right. Um, yeah. Because it was
all like DOS based. So we're, we're we're operating on a Google suite now, which is, which is good. Uh,
much better there. And, uh, you did. You mentioned all the hairstyles, the covers. I think it started out as
a trial and and it stayed. There are still some, some differences that we're trying to get through that in
some women's uniforms. They have no front pockets, um, made that way and they still don't. So you get
into quality issues and on the Steve pants, you really can't tell. We know it's a diverse force, diverse body
types. It's hard to offer different. It is only like one kind of pant for each, and it fits some better than
others. So I know it's a source of frustration for some. So we're working on that. Uh, we have cell phones
now. Uh, for a while, you know, you could wear your cell phone on your uniform, but it had to be on the
back side of your waist. That can be on the front, and that'll be from your side hit or behind. And now
you can actually talk and walk on your cell phone. That's that's a new rule. A lot of people that are
midshipmen talking on their phones, it's so rude. But it's the Navy regulation. It's allowed. You just can't
text and talk because you have to pay attention around you and make sure you don't miss the senior
officer walking by. And all right. So. Those and differences. We mentioned the new buildings. We got a
new fieldhouse. Uh, nice investment. Indoor track can be used for football practice. Volleyball plays
there. Uh, we do some of the track smokers there for the summer, so it's a versatile thing. It's got a nice
way room in there and provides an option. McDonough Hall is being completely, completely renovated.
That's that's like three and a half years. It's been closed since I've been here and it will be closed before I
depart. So to be really, really nice when it opens up and then you redo as I was here in 2010, which was
when the Navy kind of realized that cyber was going to be such a big deal. We were some of the first to
require mandatory cyber courses for all midshipmen. So we were done chemistry and physics forever.
And now it's chemistry with physics and cyber. So there's a cyber course and a second class cyber course
and it will kick their butts. It is not it is not easy. This is not computers 101. So training high level to
make them relevant warfighters for the kind of, you know, technical force they'll be interesting. Yeah.
And other than that just the the richness of the programs. You know, all the core functions of the Naval
Academy are paid for by Congress and appropriated funds. And we do have a very generous alumni base
margin of excellence, uh, approach that you do do these things, and we'll just dress up the edges and take
it from really, really good to amazing for you with just a little bit of help from external funding. So that
plays out a lot of ways. The opportunities for midshipmen, for international travel, internships. Uh, just
just the the all the core summer training, that's all. That's all core Navy functions. But, uh, just so many
things to get, uh, exposure to. Uh, if they are wise enough and take advantage of it, which I think applies
to anywhere you go.
I don't think I remember so much in international travel when we were midshipmen. Um, you had
mentioned that you did. I, one of your senior or one of your midshipmen, um, cruises in the med. So you
did a bit of a bit of travel? I did not, um, not on my on my cruises. Anyway. Uh, pretty incredible that the
the opportunities, uh, for training all over the world is just opened right up. Uh, you know, I have to tell
the audience that in order that you and I could talk, I actually had to get screened by the public affairs
officer, which I is totally expected, quite frankly, in this day and age. And so I, you know, I'd go through
all the questions I was going to ask you and and she, you know, she outlined what I could ask and, you
know, not not cross different lines. And, but one of the things that she mentioned was actually shocking
to me that because of all of the different expansions, including cyber, there's an additional 13 majors
available now. And that's not a small number. That's pretty incredible for for a, you know, a military
commissioning institution. That you can get this incredible education out to. Pretty incredible.
I agree, and I feel like I should know I want to say it's 36 varsity sports also. So it's a lot. It is a lot. And
just tremendous opportunities for midshipmen. And the nature of my job is because all the conduct, the
responsibility for the conduct, the training, expectation management and then the accountability when
they fall short of what the standards we've set for them. I. I do see the worst of it, given all of the
problems. And that's my job is to help and support them. And some make it, some do not. But but then
also we had a on Monday. We started finals this week and a lot of capstone projects and Trident Scholars
doing doing really amazing work. You know, we joke as I'm not in academia actively right now, but even
even the titles of these projects, like, I don't know what you're talking about, I just I'm gonna go on to the
next poster. So, I mean, we're all smart people. I actually did get some of it. Being a nuclear engineer in
the nuclear navy, uh, one of our midshipmen was was looking at modular module modular reactors.
Sorry, not that hard to say, and I knew I knew everything on the poster. I mean, I got it. That's exactly
what we do. And I was able to say, I said this will help you in nuclear power school when you go. So it's
just some of the other stuff. If it's not my field, the terms and terminology of some of the other majors
can be difficult to understand. But really smart midshipmen doing amazing things and and they're also
just just people of character, too. I mean, as you recall, I mean, that's being smart is required. As I say, it's
necessary but not sufficient. You know, you got to pass our physical readiness test, which the standards
haven't changed, is still tough. Uh, we do have some failures, and you can get kicked out for not passing
our physical readiness test. Uh, and you gotta have integrity and character. We got systems to catch that
as well, so. And you have to have a leadership position. That's a it's a that's not a government mandated
thing. That's a current commandant and me that we we've designated positions that qualify for leadership
credit, if you will. We get it more than half the class in the first semester. 600. So out of a, I don't know, a
little over a thousand midshipmen. And then if you haven't had one of those positions in the first semester
of your senior year, it's a thou shalt have one of those positions your second semester. So you have to be
responsible for somebody else's well-being and performance before you graduate from the Naval
Academy, because that's exactly what you're going to be doing. And, uh, you're kind of on day one when
you when you report to your first unit in most cases.
Absolutely. Well, and you and I both know that that's, that's exactly what happens. So it's pretty amazing.
What, uh, what's next for you? You're the dept on right now. You're there for another little bit and then
what?
So very little idea, uh, through my career, uh, lots of rewarding tours, serving with submarine crews. A
lot of rewarding short duties developing and then getting ready for for follow on submarine tours and all
that. So I've been very fortunate to do that service. I think the thing about serving in the military in
general is the clarity of mission and purpose with all the people that you serve with and that I know that
some people find that on the outside, and that's awesome. It takes work to find that, to find that purpose,
find that identity. And so I hope to be able to do that. I had no, I never thought about going into higher ed
for my submarine career, realizing in my time here, I do like it. It's a very clear mission. We're
developing people to graduate and commission on time, and that's a challenging it doesn't come easy. It
takes work. And then on commissioning week one of a previous deputy commandant, we connected.
Before I took this job, I was getting some advice and he said, go to every superintendents garden party.
When the superintendent invites him over kind of two times at a time, it all pays off because you'll see
the midshipmen that you that maybe, maybe saw you for getting into kind of trouble and you made them,
uh, you know, kind of you made their life a little hard on them for a period of time to recover from their
misconduct. Uh, but they're there with their parents. They're about ready to graduate, and they've made it.
And the number, like, I. I don't do it to get things. It's just the time and effort we put into developing
them. And then that's when that's when our job is complete kind of one person at a time. And then we
take about a month off in June, and then it starts all over again on induction day when we bring in the
freshmen, uh, for college summer. So I have done that for two graduations, and that has been my
experience. So. So how do I find that outside of the military service, uh, hoping to stay in higher ed? I
like the growth mindset on a university campus. In an academic setting, you can audit all kinds of
courses. You have a lot of really smart guest speakers come, plus the musical performing arts that you
get to experience and all the competition on the athletic field. It's a it's a good gig. I wouldn't mind
sticking around. And even in my summer career, I thought, there's, uh, in my mind, I broke it down that
you have that the technical engineering aspect of a submarine and nuclear power, then you have a tactical
piece of being a 3D military problem detection approach and attack and weapons engagement stuff,
which is not not as heavy as engineering. It's still kind of math and science based, but just a different
problem. With with unknowns. It's not strict procedural compliance because it's you and a potential
enemy. That's another kind of full time job. And the last full time job was was dealing with people and
leading people. And so I like all three of them. I think the one that I enjoyed the most and felt most
comfortable with was with leading people. So everything else was was fine. I had some wins and losses
in those categories. Uh, but but it's the people be so. So I work on our students, uh, and the ones that that
need help and sometimes it's really easy. And sometimes you tell them not what they want to hear, but
need to hear, and and you can tell like they don't. I'm not happy with you for a period of time, but just
like your own kids, they come around and say, you know what? You were right. And that that's what
happens. Like that, those commissioning weeks when they finally graduate and commission on time. It's
a it's a little form of that. You know what? You were right. Like I made it. And thank you for helping me
get here. I can do that for the rest of my life.
Very cool. That's amazing. Good for you. And of course, in all of this, you've also been our class
president the whole time with the tailgaters of football games and reunions and such. And uh, which, uh,
is also a thankless job. So I want to thank you for that. And to all our classmates who are going to listen
and watch this podcast, I hope I hope they're enjoying what they're seeing. So but thank you for all all
you've done 25 years plus our time at the Naval Academy and may not. That's not a small time. That's,
you know, well over half my life. So pretty incredible. But speaking of wins and losses, Army. Navy was
this past weekend. Oh. 1s In Boston, though for the first time. How was the game?
First of all, it was a great game. Unfortunately, loss, as with several games and even our time has been
chipped in or whatever. We always love to win. And the comments saying, yeah, for those people that
don't know, I mean, we're, we're, uh, friendly on the on the battlefield. It's a team effort within the
Department of Defense, uh, every day of the year, except this one. Slow as the original.
I'm sorry. Sorry. I was going to ask you what the best prank was. You worked at the Pentagon for a lot of
years, and I know a lot of pranking going on before the Army Navy game. What's the best prank you saw
at the Pentagon? Ha ha ha. I mean, it was actually pretty chill. Uh, some of my time, there was Covid and
everything else. So, uh, and then I was I was about to, like, joke. I mean, it's all fine. I was like, you said,
prank. Somebody go. Don't go there, sir. Spot like on being in your shoes. Like you get you get the and
as a as I would to and as I did before I worked here. It's all I thought. That's so funny. Whatever. But here
when we live it and breathe it and we know who's involved, it's, it's a little different. And uh, we had
some, some stuff hung up that we didn't agree with and they go about that. So that's kind of, uh, some
inside baseball. So it's what we do to hold midshipmen accountable. We are training them. They need to
learn that average college stuff behavior doesn't fly here. And just because it happened in our day, they're
like, oh, my, my uncle, my mom, my dad. They told me they did this like shit. Me that was like 35 years
ago. Like, it's not okay anymore. You can't do that. It's a different navy. It's a different society. And back
to like, remember, we all have smartphones now and we didn't have smartphones in our time. So could
you get away with more like you could? You just gotta adapt to the times. It's a fundamentally kind of
different demographic at the Naval Academy. So. So we don't say we don't say practices, pure
admissions, stuff like that. Yeah. Trying to think, um, nothing's immediately striking me. Uh, they, they
get to do all kinds of stuff. They can leave the yard, they go get ice cream, they go to 7-Eleven, just doing
different stuff. Um, they still move their couches and and TV court and just sort of be good. Good. Just
silly.
Honestly? Honestly. Yeah, that kind of stuff still happening. Moving company officers all the office
furniture out into the hallway and setting it up somewhere else. But, um. Yeah.
Oh my goodness. Well, that must have been a big caravan of buses to get all of the midshipmen up to
Boston. And, uh, you know, the ball was run up there. I think that's pretty incredible. And, uh, next year's
game is in Washington, DC, so I know. Yeah, yeah. Mike. Mike was, uh, talking about how when he.
He's never been to an Army Navy game. You know, Mike grew up in Canada, and so he's he's he doesn't
quite understand this. And so when I said, Mike, it's like Army Navy is like any hockey game you've ever
been. And it's like this battle and every hockey game in Canada, as I said, hockey, they understood the
rivalry because Army Navy is unlike anything else. It's pretty incredible. Uh, but I understand this year
was quite warm. Usually it's freezing.
Yeah. So I say cool, but not cold. So we got very, very lucky in that sense. I mean, we we wore our, uh,
officer coats, which do keep you warm and pretty cold weather. And arguably, maybe they they weren't
required. I'm sure some people actually got got warm and hot wearing them. So that was nice to not not
freeze over but soft. And then you're just explaining a little bit of like as soon as you're introduced to the
Naval Academy. I mean, as you remember, I mean we and our blue and gold or alma mater with beat
Army every time and we're doing like really 20 push ups for physical training and then we do 20 push
ups, then we do one more to beat Army. So it's all the time and I, we joke about like, Air Force is just this
third wheel. Of course we'd like to be there for us, too. Uh, but the real real, the only true rivalry is Army.
Navy. And there's nothing else like it, so. That's right. Oh my goodness. Well, what else do you want to
talk about? Have we have we covered it all. Did I miss anything. 1s Uh, no, it's, uh, it's been here when I.
When I first got to the Naval Academy, I got asked some questions about what's different, what's
changed. And my immediate thing is we're always trying to get better. But but it's a it's a fundamentally
sound place. It's a great place to be. A lot of people just working on self-improvement, they want to do
great things in the Navy and Marine Corps and a lot of things, you know, like just just being good people
on the outside, doing good things for their community, serving in other kinds of ways. And it's just a real
honor to be a part of that. And the small little piece that I played. So it's a great staff working, working
here. And uh, I hope, uh, you know, people enjoy hearing about it. And, and I think if for, for young
people who are looking for something to do and have that desire to serve, I'd be hard pressed to find a
better place to go and get trained to do that. And we're talking about the Naval Academy is a is a
transformative experience. Uh, we have some outside, uh, entities kind of come evaluate us. A lot of
colleges, you will get an education, you'll learn some things, but you're probably personality wise going
to be pretty similar to how you were when you came in. You know, some people will have some some
deeper experience to do. Not, uh, the Naval Academy will, uh. We're gonna if you have. You have holes,
you have flaws, you have weaknesses. The pressure of this place is going to find them. And if you're
ready to face that, which is a positive thing, because we also we don't we don't try to break you down.
We find them. And then we have the tools here to fix them and and to support you. The amount of
resources from mental health, academic to physical. Uh, just incredible. Second to none. We are we are
all in on supporting our midshipmen. So it's just a really neat experience. We always want more people.
Lots of applications. It is competitive. But but if you have a diverse background, you've done reasonably
well academically and physically. I definitely give it a shot.
Fantastic. Fantastic. Well, to, uh, to my audience, listeners and watchers out there. Uh, everybody knows
that I always include a call to action. And, Dave, you and I had talked about, you know, what should that
call to action be? You know, we're just sort of doing this other other topic, you know, this isn't a landlord
topic. This is just another topic. And you and I had talked about. Maybe asking when you see a veteran to
share their story. And many, many people, uh, in the US, they were the hats that will say, you know, that
they were a veteran Vietnam veteran or a ship that they served on, or that their son or daughter is in one
of the services or something, and or in Canada, in Canada that they do wear hats, but they also wear
poppies. Um, especially around, um, early November, uh, leading up to Remembrance Day, which is also
on November 11th. And I think the call to action with all of this is ask the story, because I think that they
are eager to share, which is why they're wearing all of that. Uh, wouldn't you agree?
I do, I do, I mean, it's, uh. Rebel join the service for a variety of reasons, and I think the Naval Academy
starting out was a transformative experience. Certainly for me, I, I assume you feel really close to the
same, but but also continuing to serve, uh, is going to do whatever it is that whatever branch it is that
someone joined, uh, you know, going through preparing for the missions and building the teamwork
associated with that. Uh, it's it's meaningful and it's hard to replicate when it's time to no longer do that,
whether or not you do kind of one length of service, one investment, or just a few years as an officer or
much longer, uh, that that sense of purpose and belonging can create a void. And I think those people
would be happy to, to recount, uh, their experience, uh, while they were in the service.
Love it, love it. Dave, thank you so much for joining me today. Uh, absolute pleasure having you on.
Um, really excited that we were able to finally put this all together. This has been a couple of months in
the making, so thank you for that. Uh, to all my listeners out there, if you've got comments or questions,
uh, please go to our website. At mylifeasalandlord.com all kinds of free resources on the website.
And, uh, join me for next week's podcast, what to do When Your Rental is Not renting because we are
back to landlord topics. Dave, thanks again. And, uh, hopefully I'll see you soon.
Sounds great. I'll be here. Appreciate it.
Thank you for joining us this week. To view the complete show notes
and all the links mentioned in today's episode, visit our website at www.mylifeasalandlord.com. If you're
looking for educational resources for getting into real estate investing, becoming a landlord, or even a
better tenant, then I have a page on my website to get you started looking for a solution to the pickle that
you're in. I have suggestions for that too. You can throw your situation on My Facebook Group My Life
as a Landlord and let our community help you with solutions. Also, before you go, make sure you
subscribe to the podcast so you can receive new episodes right when they're released. You can to
subscribe right now in the app you're listening to this podcast on or you can sign up at www.mylifeasalandlord.com.
Thank you again for joining me, Dr. Jennifer Salisbury in this episode of My Life as a Landlord. I'll see you next time.